## u started off with what the quran says, but none of ur later comments come from the quran....are u using the extra-quranic sources to "complete" the quran's "incomplete" chronicle of christ? (-:
Posted:
Mon 05 Mar, 2007 5:41 am
Anonymous Guest
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Post subject: Tomb of Jesus in Kashmr
The Koran is not a Book of History.
To know what happened to the ancient Kingdom of Israel you will have to study Ancient History.
Most of how Israel and Judah were destroyed and punished by God for their sins and disobedince is given in the Bible.
Their sins are also mentioned in the Koran (although not in as detail as in the Bible).
However I have read the Koran only once or twice.
So I would like to know from some one who KNOWS what the Koran says on the death and resurrection of Jesus.
As for the Tomb of Jesus I sincerely believed that Jesus was buried there until they discovered another one in South East of Jerusalem.
I don't know much about the one in Japan.
But I gave the website for those who might be interested in these things.
I sincerely advise you to read the (Ancient) History of Israel.
These Jews who have returned to live in the present day Israel are not all Israel.
So it is wrong and misleading to call themselves ISRAEL.
The House of Israel consisted of Twelve Tribes in all.
The Jews are descended only from Judah (one Tribe).
So why are they trying to mislead the world by calling themselves "Israel"?
The real Israelites came over to Islam long ago.
What does that mean?
It means they ie who have accepted Islam are the real inheritees of THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
Does this come to you as a big surprise?
I say to all of you Muslims out there:
WAKE UP! AND CLAIM YOUR RIGHT.
Posted:
Tue 06 Mar, 2007 1:22 am
Al-Quraishi Site Admin
Status: Age: 117 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
Ameen Akhi
I agree with you 100% ESPECIALLY regarding the Modern Myth of Israel
Posted:
Tue 06 Mar, 2007 7:54 am
The Rook
Status: Age: 111 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Posts: 529
Post subject:
Quote:
hindi wrote:
The Koran is not a Book of History.
To know what happened to the ancient Kingdom of Israel you will have to study Ancient History.
# okayz! (-: ...i was simply curious about the link u forged between the jesus of the quranic verse, and the jesus who recovered from his wounds, migrated to kashmir and apparently got buried there! (-:
Quote:
Most of how Israel and Judah were destroyed and punished by God for their sins and disobedince is given in the Bible.
Their sins are also mentioned in the Koran (although not in as detail as in the Bible).
# no disrespect towards the christians and jews....but the book of bible accuses the quranic prophets of acts which do not seem to befit them!
...i am not too sure i ll know which part of the bible to believe in, which not to! (-:
Quote:
However I have read the Koran only once or twice.
So I would like to know from some one who KNOWS what the Koran says on the death and resurrection of Jesus.
# it (the quran) says that christ was neither killed nor crucified....it says absolutely nowhere that christ died of his wounds or of any other reason!
...if u find it, or if u find anybody who has found it....lemme know! (-:
Quote:
As for the Tomb of Jesus I sincerely believed that Jesus was buried there until they discovered another one in South East of Jerusalem.
# okiez...so what do u sincerely believe now? (-:
Quote:
I don't know much about the one in Japan.
# what i know is that his "lost years" were supposedly spent somewhere in china and india....there have been claims of his visits to these places to gain spiritual knowledge! legends of his being buried in india or japan only seem to add to the claims that the years of christ which seem to have gone uncommentated upon were indeed spent away from the rabbis and the pharisees! (-:
..again, v have conflicting versions of what is:
# the biblical legend tells us that christ was crucified and resurrected, and then returned to his heavenly father!
# v have legends of his having travelled, during his formative years, to india and china and burma....then returning to the children of israel to preach unto them the message of his heavenly father....and later having been buried in india/japan! even here v have the same guy having been buried in 2 different places!
# v now have a third alternative for his burial place...jerusalem!
# and then v have the quran's take on the incident!
all the 4 accounts seem to be at 6's and 7's with each other....and that doesnt seem to help a lot, does it? (-:
Quote:
But I gave the website for those who might be interested in these things.
# thanx! (-:
Quote:
I sincerely advise you to read the (Ancient) History of Israel.
# i appreciate ur sincere advice...could u also advise me on the material for this reading? (-:
Quote:
These Jews who have returned to live in the present day Israel are not all Israel.
So it is wrong and misleading to call themselves ISRAEL.
The House of Israel consisted of Twelve Tribes in all.
The Jews are descended only from Judah (one Tribe).
# hmmm...honestly, the titles are quite confusing.....children of israel....zion....hebrew.....jew.....yahud!
...and it probably doesnt help that the quran and the bible are not at all convergent over this issue!
# as far as the quran is concerned, 2:47 addresses the "children of israel", and when ur reach 2:61, they are still being dressed down! what the quran says about them is perhaps something not many would want to put on their resumes:
2:61 And when ye said: O Moses! We are weary of one kind of food; so call upon thy Lord for us that He bring forth for us of that which the earth groweth - of its herbs and its cucumbers and its corn and its lentils and its onions. He said: Would ye exchange that which is higher for that which is lower? Go down to settled country, thus ye shall get that which ye demand. And humiliation and wretchedness were stamped upon them and they were visited with wrath from Allah. That was because they disbelieved in Allah's revelations and slew the prophets wrongfully. That was for their disobedience and transgression.
# u said that the jews (living in the present day israel) do not make up all of the children of israel, and are just 1 of the 12 tribes, descending from judah! let us call these "judahites", descendants of judah, to distinguish them from the 11 other tribes! now the question is, are these judahites the yahud/huda of the quran?
....lemme hear ur views regarding the judahites (tribe of judah) and the yahud/huda of the quran! (-:
Quote:
So why are they trying to mislead the world by calling themselves "Israel"?
# maybe the world (others) forced the label of "israel" upon them! i am not saying it is so...but maybe! (-:
Quote:
The real Israelites came over to Islam long ago.
# who were they? (-:
Quote:
What does that mean?
It means they ie who have accepted Islam are the real inheritees of THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
# so who are the real israelites? the real slayers of the prophets? :-S
Quote:
Does this come to you as a big surprise?
# i am not sure what the big surprise is, bro! (-:
Quote:
I say to all of you Muslims out there:
WAKE UP! AND CLAIM YOUR RIGHT.
# the "muslims" dont look too sure as to who amongst them are "muslims", who are "mushriks", and who are "kafirs"! :-S
once they decide who amongst them are the real "muslims", or when the real "muslims" stand up to be counted, i guess they will get to the claiming/reclaiming part!
....till then, i guess v ll ve to wait! (-:
## if u dunn mind my asking, bro, what is the muslim right? and what does it have to do with being the real israelites? (-:
# take care! (-:
Posted:
Wed 07 Mar, 2007 12:30 am
Anonymous Guest
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Faith:
Post subject: Tomb of Jesus in Kashmir
After King Solomon died, Ten of the Twelve Tribes rebelled against the new King of Jerusalem and set up their own Kingdom with Samaria as their capital city. They revived calf worship. For this God decided to punish them and sent against them the King of Assyria (723 BC) who attacked the Northern Kingdom and carried away the Ten Tribes into slavery. Over the ages these Tribes disappeared and are known as the Lost Tribes of Israel.
In the mean time, the Southern Kingdom known as Judea consisting of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin, with Jerusalem as their Capital, also became weak in their faith in Jehovah. In order to punish them God sent against them the King of Babylon (586 BC) who destroyed and ransacked the city of Jerusalem and sent Judah into exile.
In 539 BC Babylon fell to the Medes, and Cyrus (mentioned as Dhul Qurnain in the Holy Koran) allowed Ezra (458 BC) to return to rebuilt the Temple at Jerusalem.
However, because of their rebellious ways and disobedience to God, Jerusalem was again destroyed (as foretold by Jesus) by the Roman in 70 AD.
The Muslims should read the Bible in order not to make the same mistakes as Judah and Israel who thought that they could do just as they liked as they looked upon themselves as the Chosen People of God.
Now as for the Jews who are flocking from all over the world to set up this new kingdom of Israel:
They are not descended from Abraham but from Japheth (one of the three sons of Noah.)
They migrated to Europe from a country in Central Asia where they had converted to Judaism when their own King embraced Judaism.
I think I have made the picture clear.
But those who would like to have more details, can look up the Wikipedia on their own.
With love to all you Muslims, and Best of Luck.
-Friend of Islam (Hindi)
Posted:
Wed 07 Mar, 2007 4:05 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Hey Hindi
Thanks for particpating in the guest forum, please you are welcome to join and debate the issue under your name unless you prefer to be anonymous
Status: Age: 111 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Posts: 529
Post subject:
Quote:
hindi wrote:
After King Solomon died, Ten of the Twelve Tribes rebelled against the new King of Jerusalem and set up their own Kingdom with Samaria as their capital city. They revived calf worship. For this God decided to punish them and sent against them the King of Assyria (723 BC) who attacked the Northern Kingdom and carried away the Ten Tribes into slavery. Over the ages these Tribes disappeared and are known as the Lost Tribes of Israel.
In the mean time, the Southern Kingdom known as Judea consisting of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin, with Jerusalem as their Capital, also became weak in their faith in Jehovah. In order to punish them God sent against them the King of Babylon (586 BC) who destroyed and ransacked the city of Jerusalem and sent Judah into exile.
In 539 BC Babylon fell to the Medes, and Cyrus (mentioned as Dhul Qurnain in the Holy Koran) allowed Ezra (458 BC) to return to rebuilt the Temple at Jerusalem.
However, because of their rebellious ways and disobedience to God, Jerusalem was again destroyed (as foretold by Jesus) by the Roman in 70 AD.
# does that ancient history happen to be biblical history? like i said before, i am not sure on what basis i should accept parts of bible and reject parts thereof!
Quote:
The Muslims should read the Bible in order not to make the same mistakes as Judah and Israel who thought that they could do just as they liked as they looked upon themselves as the Chosen People of God.
# if the muslims, like the biblical judah and jacob, and unlike the quranic jacob, think they can do just as they like...they would surely be fishing for trouble! (-:
...however, i agree that muslims should read the bible, even if not entirely for the reason u mentioned! (-:
Quote:
Now as for the Jews who are flocking from all over the world to set up this new kingdom of Israel:
They are not descended from Abraham but from Japheth (one of the three sons of Noah.)
# if they really are flocking from all over the world, then the zionists must be pretty smug over the fact that this would be as close to fulfilling ezekiel's prophecy as they could hope for:
ezekiel 11: 16 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come.
11: 17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come.
Quote:
They migrated to Europe from a country in Central Asia where they had converted to Judaism when their own King embraced Judaism.
# honestly, i am not sure what to make of the khazars, and how to relate them to the current israeli population!
...moreover, like i said, the quran does mention yahud....and their presence is undeniable! the conversion of the khazars to judaism and their subsequent disappearance is definitely interesting, but i dont see it's relevance to islam! again, whether these jews are from japheth or judah/abraham, the kingdom of god is likely to be inherited on account of faith rather than race! (-:
Quote:
I think I have made the picture clear.
# : hmmm :
Quote:
But those who would like to have more details, can look up the Wikipedia on their own.
# cool! (-:
Quote:
With love to all you Muslims, and Best of Luck.
# ditto! (-:
Quote:
ahmedbahgat wrote:
Thanks for particpating in the guest forum, please you are welcome to join and debate the issue under your name unless you prefer to be anonymous
# yups, buddy....u r more than welcome! : belated more-than-welcome : (-;
Posted:
Wed 07 Mar, 2007 7:21 am
The Rook
Status: Age: 111 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
# u know...maybe they (zionists) are getting pseudo-jews to converge unto israel so that they give it the appearance of fulfilling ezekiel's prophecy...
...wat say? (-:
Posted:
Wed 07 Mar, 2007 7:36 am
Anonymous Guest
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Post subject: Tomb of Jesus in Kashmir
The Crucifixion
"I was sent by Titus Caesar with Ceralius and a thousand riders to a certain town by the name of Thecoa to find out whether a camp could be set up at this place. On my return I saw many prisoners who had been crucified, and recognized three of them as my former companions. I was inwardly very sad about this and went with tears in my eyes to Titus and told him about them. He at once gave the order that they should be taken down and given the best treatment so they could get better. However two of them died while being attended to by the doctor; the third recovered.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
The above quote from Josephus is very significant. We are conditioned from birth to associate crucifixion with death. Many people will never have heard of the idea of survival of crucifixion. The idea of Jesus dying on the cross is something that is so widely accepted that its rarely questioned.
But what happened to Jesus Christ? We are fortunate to live in modern times, when science and the field of medicine lend us powerful tools of analysis, as well as a language of medical and scientific terminology.
These things even allow us to determine what may have occurred physiologically to Jesus Christ during and, assuming he survived the crucifixion, even after his ordeal on the cross.
The Crucifixion - Pilate & the Centurion
"And now when the even [evening] was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath, Joseph of Arimathaea, an honorable counselor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus. And Pilate marveled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
Pilate would have experience of many Crucifixions in his time and he was surprised how quickly Jesus seemed to die. The usual duration for a crucifixion would be several days and the victims would die from asphyxiation over an extended time. The punishment was designed to be long and drawn out.
Jesus' Legs were not Broken
Crucially Jesus' legs were not broken as he was deemed to have already been dead. Holger Kersten has shown that, based on the Greek text of these events, it seems likely that the test for if Jesus was alive or dead was the lance used to pierce his side. As he did not react to this it was assumed he was dead.
When Jesus side was pierced "blood and water" flowed out. Would this occur on a body that had been dead for some time?
Friend of Islam
New Delhi, India
Posted:
Wed 07 Mar, 2007 4:34 pm
Anonymous Guest
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Post subject: Tomb of Jesus in Kashmir
The Talpiot Tomb
Israel-born Simcha Jacobovici and James Cameron have prepared a film, claiming that they have found the Tomb of Jesus Christ and his family, at Talpiot in a suburb of Jerusalem . The basis of their tall claim is deciphering and reading of the wedge-shaped cuneiform marks scratched on the ossuaries made of lime mortar. Both of them are not experts in the science of reading ancient Semitic scripts, like Aramaic, Kharooshti, Syriac, Siniatic or Arabic. The net result has been that they have jumped to pool their intentional conclusions.
I, the author of a Search for the Historical Jesus (http://www.amazon.com/.) and the Fifth Gospel (http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/) would like to draw the attention of the archaeologists, historians and the Bible scholars to the following:
1. In March 1980, during construction of a building the archaeologist found 10 ossuaries and 3 skulls. The skulls and the bones were buried quickly by the Jewish authorities. As such, all the 10 limestone empty boxes remained in charge of the Israeli authorities, up till now.
2. In 1996, BBC produced a film on these ossuaries, but it could not incite any reaction, from the academic field. Now in March 2007 the $ 4 million film (Jesus Family Tomb) was shown on Discovery Channel.
3. The above would reveal that for the last 27 years none from the academic world made any claim to have deciphered the name of Jesus Christ, on any ossuary.
4. The ossuary said to belong to Jesus Christ is made of lime mortar, and given shape into small rectangular box, with imprinted design and pattern on the top lid only, as detailed below:
i) An engraved fringe at the sides
ii) 2 circles bifurcated by a fringe, each containing 6 triangles in the shape of a flower.
iii) 2 circles divided by 3 strips of s fringe decorated by 3 small circle each.
5. There is no inscription engraved on the 6 sides of this lime plastered box. It only carry scratches to look like a inscription, which has been done some time after the manufacture of lime box, by the use of some sharp-edged iron tool.
6. Out of the 10 ossuaries, 6 carry cuneiform scratching or marks. These cuneiform scratches can be assumed to read as incibed alphabets from Kharoshti, Aramaic, Hebrew, Syriac and Arabic.
7. The claim made by the film makers that the words on one ossuary can be read as in Aramaic Yeshn bin Yossef is totally rejected due to the following reasons:
a) Bin is used by the Arabs, depicting parentage. As such the relatives of Yeshu or Jesus knew only Aramaic and not Arabic.
b) It is possible that some a curio dealer has got etched these words on the lime plaster, for the sake of money.
c) Jesus was never known as Yeshu, nor his father was ever known as Yossef during their life time.
d) The so called inscription Yeshu son of Yossef shows that the alphabets have been altered on the right side, for it shows deeper inside incised cuts. In fact the last 3 alphabets have been changed in a crude way by first marking it with ink, then water and then erased with a sharp edged tool. Thus, it is a mutilated inscription.
e) On the left, the deep horizontal asterisk mark and the two dots down side have also been made by the use of water and a steel spoke.
8. Jesus belonged to a poor family of Nazareth and it was not possible for his descendants to build a family Tomb in Jerusalem , far away from the town of his birth.
9. Roman Paganism prevailed in Roman Empire ( Palestine included in it ) till 312 AD. Jesus at the time of his meeting with Paul, in 36 AD. 6 years after his crucifixion, tells him that the Romans are persecuting him (Acts 9:3-4). How could the Roman allow Jesus to be buried in a tomb in Jerusalem , when they were searching him in later years.
10. The Jewish brain has exploited archaeology for political ends to overthrow the Muslim presence from the Temple site in Jerusalem . It is yet to be proved that the etchings made on the lime ossuaries are as old as the ossuaries itself. The film maker is a Jew. The question arises as to why have they waited for 30 years to prove that it is Jesus Christ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s family tomb. There is some political agenda behind this wild claim.
11. when the Tomb is supposed to belongs to one family, then why the inscriptions have been made to appear in Latin in case of Maria, in Greek in case Mary, and in Aramaic in case of Jesus who lived in the same period i.e., first century AD.
12. My study tells me that the genuine parts of etchings and scratching pertain to pre-Christ period, sometime between 330-559 B.C. It will take sometime for me to decipher and read these names.
-Professor Fida Hassnain
(Pasted here by Hindi, Friend of Islam)
Posted:
Wed 07 Mar, 2007 5:12 pm
Al-Quraishi Site Admin
Status: Age: 117 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Posts: 70
Post subject:
Quote:
7. The claim made by the film makers that the words on one ossuary can be read as in Aramaic Yeshn bin Yossef is totally rejected due to the following reasons:
a) Bin is used by the Arabs, depicting parentage. As such the relatives of Yeshu or Jesus knew only Aramaic and not Arabic.
This is incorrect, both Arabs and Aramaics/Hebrews/Jews did and still do (at least the true semitic ones) use 'bin' for patronage and this was very widespread if not universally the case.
Posted:
Thu 08 Mar, 2007 8:51 am
Anonymous Guest
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Post subject: Tomb of Jesus in Kashmir
Yes, I agree with you, Zayd.
I wonder how, despite being a Muslim, Prof Hassnain does not know this.
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