I have one Question for you.
You must be knowing the story of Abrahim (PBUH) breaking the Idols.
21:62 They said, "Art thou the one that did this with our gods, O Abraham?"
21:63 He said: "Nay, this was done by - this is their biggest one! ask them, if they can speak intelligently!"
Now according to the Story , Abrahim(PBUH) destroyed the Idols , and he says The Biggest Idol destroyed it.
Now my Question is
Did Abrahim (PBUH) lied ? or he was telling truth?
If you say he lied, think once again , Can he Lie.
If he says Truth , just mention that he was telling Truth.
My answer to that Question would be , He said the truth. Because he cannot lie as he is the Messenger of Allah.
Please give your Answer to it.
Posted:
Tue 13 May, 2008 8:08 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject: Re: Abrahim(PBUH) Breaking the IDOLS
QuranandScience wrote:
Hi Ahmed,
Hello Q&S
I like your attitude, that if we malciously disagree on something we can move on and discuss something else, which is cool with me
QuranandScience wrote:
I have one Question for you.
You must be knowing the story of Abrahim (PBUH) breaking the Idols.
Certainly I know it
QuranandScience wrote:
21:62 They said, "Art thou the one that did this with our gods, O Abraham?"
21:63 He said: "Nay, this was done by - this is their biggest one! ask them, if they can speak intelligently!"
I believe the word 'intelligently' is not in the Arabic text
QuranandScience wrote:
Now according to the Story , Abrahim(PBUH) destroyed the Idols , and he says The Biggest Idol destroyed it.
Yep, sort of making fools of them (the kafirs), by telling them: "possibly the big statue did it, hahahahah" you know, I reckon that was very smart by Ibrahim
QuranandScience wrote:
Now my Question is
Did Abrahim (PBUH) lied ? or he was telling truth?
Well, some hearsay hadith claim that Ibrahim lied, however I don't believe them because the above is not a a malice lie to clear himself, he was using it as a string argument so they convict their arses and reply to him by saying: 'Are you nuts, you know that these statues don't speak", and again that was very cleaver by Ibrahim, he used them to take their admission that these statues are nothing but BS without them knowing that he was tricking their stupid arses
Therefore, for me I say he did not lie, rather it was a powerful trick and indeed they were done and said what he wanted them to say
QuranandScience wrote:
If you say he lied, think once again , Can he Lie.
Of course he can lie, any human can, and not because they are prophets they are imuned from lying or committing even a more worse of a sin, we know that Moses killed someone and Allah forgave him, we also know that Dawood did something big and Allah forgave him, we also know that prophet MOhammed forbade what Allah allowed and yet Allah fogave him, and we also know that Yunis abandoned his mission which is a great sin yet Allah forgave him
therefore, even if I consider Ibrahim that he must have lied, then Allah forgave him, very simple mate to comprehend
QuranandScience wrote:
If he says Truth , just mention that he was telling Truth.
He was trickig them to make them say what he wanted them to say and he succeeded
QuranandScience wrote:
My answer to that Question would be , He said the truth. Because he cannot lie as he is the Messenger of Allah.
BS, this is because if a maessneger can not lie then a messneger should not:
1) Forbade what Allah Allowed
2) Kill innocent human who did nothing to the killer
3) Abandon the mission that Allah chose him for
etc etc
QuranandScience wrote:
Please give your Answer to it.
Salam
Posted:
Tue 13 May, 2008 8:21 am
QuranandScience Pawn
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Post subject: Re: Abrahim(PBUH) Breaking the IDOLS
AhmedBahgat wrote:
therefore, even if I consider Ibrahim that he must have lied, then Allah forgave him, very simple mate to comprehend
Thanks Ahmed ,
That was a Great Answer.
Now tell me , Is it fair enough to Follow Abrahim (PBUH) and Mohammed(PBUH) in this situation
Can we also break Physical Idols of other religion ? as it becomes Sunnah ?
Waiting for your intelligent response.?
Posted:
Tue 13 May, 2008 8:32 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject: Re: Abrahim(PBUH) Breaking the IDOLS
QuranandScience wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
therefore, even if I consider Ibrahim that he must have lied, then Allah forgave him, very simple mate to comprehend
Thanks Ahmed ,
That was a Great Answer.
Now tell me , Is it fair enough to Follow Abrahim (PBUH) and Mohammed(PBUH) in this situation
Can we also break Physical Idols of other religion ? as it becomes Sunnah ?
Waiting for your intelligent response.?
I say if it happens on Muslim land,
on the other hand, Mohammed and Ibrahim were messengers sent with missions, we the rest of humans carry no mission other than twards the self by striving hard to follow the messsage sent through these messengers, Allah didn't order us to demolish any idols as Ibrahim did, however if I see my mother or my father worshipping a statue in our home then certainly I will demolish it even if the story of Ibrahim never happened
Posted:
Tue 13 May, 2008 9:07 am
QuranandScience Pawn
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Post subject: Re: Abrahim(PBUH) Breaking the IDOLS
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I say if it happens on Muslim land,
Dont you think , Breaking Physical IDOLS shows disrespect to other religions.
I think according to Islam we need to respect other religions whether it is Muslim land or Non Muslim Land.
Do you have any reason ,How Allah can give such a mission to great messengers for Breaking physical Idols. where as on the other hand Allah says to respect the other religions.
Do you know why the Statue of budha was broken in Afghanistan, which was a hurt to other religions. The people who broke the Statue they said that they have followed there messengers. And following Messenger is the sunnah whether it is a Mission or not a mission.
Dont you think , how can Abrahim(PBUH) and Mohammed(PBUH) can be an example of such stupid peoples.
Posted:
Tue 13 May, 2008 10:44 am
QuranandScience Pawn
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Post subject: Re: Abrahim(PBUH) Breaking the IDOLS
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Well, all other religions (if genuine) should be from the same one and only God, therefore the disrespect is by those idol worshippers who are worshipping crap in a suppose to be a nation that is submitting to the one and only God
Well, if they don't like the rules in the Muslim land then they can piss off and worship their idols somewnere else on earth
Why are you stressing more on Muslim Land , Non Muslim Land. Did Allah said to divides Land between the Peoples.
All the people in the Earth has to be one Nation. and among them if there are people of other religion , our work is to send the message , not to disrespect by breaking there physical Idols.
If other religion hurts us , it is not necessary that we should also hurt them. Whether they be Idol Worshipers or Atheist , we need to give respect to every one. That is Muslim.
I understand you agree few concepts with Shia , sunni , Kafir ,....etc.
Then tell me whos Concepts are these , which you are talking about.
1. If other religion Hurts you , you also Hurt them.
2. No need of respecting other religions.
3. Divide the earth into Muslim Nations and Non Muslim Nations.
4. In Muslim Nations , breaking the physical Idols of other Religions is not wrong.
Posted:
Wed 14 May, 2008 2:50 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject: Re: Abrahim(PBUH) Breaking the IDOLS
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Well, all other religions (if genuine) should be from the same one and only God, therefore the disrespect is by those idol worshippers who are worshipping crap in a suppose to be a nation that is submitting to the one and only God
Well, if they don't like the rules in the Muslim land then they can piss off and worship their idols somewnere else on earth
QuranandScience wrote:
Why are you stressing more on Muslim Land , Non Muslim Land. Did Allah said to divides Land between the Peoples.
Well, the Quran rules apply on Muslim lands, as well the kafir rules apply on kafir lands, got it?
Now Allah never said your crap above, however Allah told us to rule our land with our rules, for example we can not allow the kafirs to come near Al Masjid Al Haram
QuranandScience wrote:
All the people in the Earth has to be one Nation. and among them if there are people of other religion , our work is to send the message , not to disrespect by breaking there physical Idols.
Send the message to their kafir land not in our Muslim land, now in the Muslim land they can sowrship their statues in closed doors not in public
QuranandScience wrote:
If other religion hurts us , it is not necessary that we should also hurt them.
Of course it is
an eye for an eye
QuranandScience wrote:
Whether they be Idol Worshipers or Atheist , we need to give respect to every one. That is Muslim.
we will respect them when they respect the laws of the Muslim land
QuranandScience wrote:
I understand you agree few concepts with Shia , sunni , Kafir ,....etc.
Good
QuranandScience wrote:
Then tell me whos Concepts are these , which you are talking about.
1. If other religion Hurts you , you also Hurt them.
an eye for an eye
QuranandScience wrote:
2. No need of respecting other religions.
if they don't respect our religion and our laws of the Muslim land
QuranandScience wrote:
3. Divide the earth into Muslim Nations and Non Muslim Nations.
this is just crap by you as I never siggested that, in fact Muslims can live in kafir land as long as they respect the laws of the kafirs lands as well kafirs can live in Muslim land as long as they respect the laws of the Muslims land
QuranandScience wrote:
4. In Muslim Nations , breaking the physical Idols of other Religions is not wrong.
Of course, because Muslim natioins need to clean all satanic crap in their Muslim land
Posted:
Wed 14 May, 2008 7:08 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
Q & S
it seems to me that all what you are doing above is simple paving the way to further crap by your so you can interoret Ibaragim verses in a way that suits your desires
why don't you come clean and tell us what the story of Ibrahim means, did he hysically break the idols or you have another explanation to it?
Posted:
Wed 14 May, 2008 7:11 am
QuranandScience Pawn
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Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
why don't you come clean and tell us what the story of Ibrahim means, did he hysically break the idols or you have another explanation to it?
Good, Back to point.
Now understand my point.
Breaking the Idols , is a Disrespect to Other religion whether you talk about ISLAM or common scence, and I dont agree with your Eye for an Eye theory.
If you could understand that Breaking Physical Idols is wrong, then I would have explained my theory.
But your faith says that is Good, then there is no difference between your thoughts and Talibans Thoughts.
If you agree that , Breaking Physical Idols of other religion is wrong , then i would present my theory. and I will proof that Abrahim and Mohammed (PBUH) never showed such disrespect to other religion.
Give respect and Take Respect.
The best way for taking respect from other religion is to give respect. I dont know why you dont understand these small things.
Posted:
Wed 14 May, 2008 7:43 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
QuranandScience wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
why don't you come clean and tell us what the story of Ibrahim means, did he hysically break the idols or you have another explanation to it?
Good, Back to point.
Now understand my point.
Breaking the Idols , is a Disrespect to Other religion whether you talk about ISLAM or common scence, and I dont agree with your Eye for an Eye theory.
If you could understand that Breaking Physical Idols is wrong, then I would have explained my theory.
But your faith says that is Good, then there is no difference between your thoughts and Talibans Thoughts.
If you agree that , Breaking Physical Idols of other religion is wrong , then i would present my theory. and I will proof that Abrahim and Mohammed (PBUH) never showed such disrespect to other religion.
Give respect and Take Respect.
The best way for taking respect from other religion is to give respect. I dont know why you dont understand these small things.
well, on my Muslim land, the kafirs must have no other option but to respect the laws of the Muslim land, same with Muslims on kafir land, they have no option but to respect the laws of the kafir land
Now to erect idols in public on a Muslim land, must be a huge desrespect to the land owners as well to their God and consequently they must be destroyed
Posted:
Wed 14 May, 2008 7:57 am
QuranandScience Pawn
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AhmedBahgat wrote:
Now to erect idols in public on a Muslim land, must be a huge desrespect to the land owners as well to their God and consequently they must be destroyed
Give Respect and Take Respect.
Masjid Al Haram , Never had Physical Idols in it.
And the Idols Broken by Abrahim and Mohammed (PBUH) were not physical , But the Mental Thoughts of New Gods.
You can understand this , if your mind respects other religion. But you also have a False Conception(IDOLS) in your mind that other religions should be destroyed in Muslim Lands.
That means you are also an IDOL worshiper , where IDOL is not Physical Idol.
Give Respect and Take Respect
Posted:
Wed 14 May, 2008 8:08 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Now to erect idols in public on a Muslim land, must be a huge desrespect to the land owners as well to their God and consequently they must be destroyed
QuranandScience wrote:
Give Respect and Take Respect.
That's right, they have to respect the Muslim laws in the Muslim land to be respected
In the Muslim land The kafors can worship their crap indoors, not in public
QuranandScience wrote:
Masjid Al Haram , Never had Physical Idols in it.
The history tells us that it had many idols in it, as well the history tells us the kafirs used to do the tawaf naked, sort of Mardi Gras in the vicinity of Al Masjid Al Haram
QuranandScience wrote:
And the Idols Broken by Abrahim and Mohammed (PBUH) were not physical , But the Mental Thoughts of New Gods.
prove that Ibrahim didn't physically break the statues of the idols worshippers, for Mohamed, there is nothing in the Quran that he broke any idols therefore I'm not going to get into conjectures
You can understand this , if your mind respects other religion.
I respect other religions, however this is not going to stop me from stopping them abusing the laws of the Muslim land that they choose to live in, also respecting them is not going to stop conveying the message of the Quran to them
why don't you tell me if the Quran is disrespecting the kafirs by telling them that they will be barbecued in hell?
QuranandScience wrote:
But you also have a False Conception(IDOLS) in your mind that other religions should be destroyed in Muslim Lands.
are you confuse or what?
I'm not destroying the idols of the kafiroon on their kafir land, in fact the Quran tells me that if I get oppressed in a kafir land then I may conceal my prayer and even hide my belief, same must apply to the kafirs on Muslim land, if you consider this oppressing by the Muslims then the kafirs must conceal they idol worshipping and hide their disbelief
QuranandScience wrote:
That means you are also an IDOL worshiper , where IDOL is not Physical Idol.
Dismissed
QuranandScience wrote:
Give Respect and Take Respect
that is if they respect the laws of the Muslim land, they will be respected and even protected
you know nothing pal but confusion over confusion
cheers
Posted:
Wed 14 May, 2008 10:47 am
QuranandScience Pawn
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Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
The history tells us that it had many idols in it, as well the history tells us the kafirs used to do the tawaf naked, sort of Mardi Gras in the vicinity of Al Masjid Al Haram
So you believe in History more than the Quran, because common sense say that we should respect other religions. only people like you and Taliban says not to respect other religion.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
prove that Ibrahim didn't physically break the statues of the idols worshippers, for Mohamed, there is nothing in the Quran that he broke any idols therefore I'm not going to get into conjectures
See the word IDOLS , Can be physical(1,2,3,4)or Non-Physical(5,6) according to its meanings . Its upto you if you want to show Islam disrespect other religions or Islam gives respect to other religions. depending on your choice you take the meaning.
Why Abrahim will break physical Idols, which can be made again. he need to remove other Gods from the Minds of people, that is the False Conception(Idols) which will not allow to make physical one.
He broke all the False conception from the people minds but not the big One that is Allah. Then when people asked Him Who has broken there Gods. Then Abrahim Answered and he told the truth that It was broken by the Big one (That is Allah). Only Allah can help Abrahim to remove false conception from peoples mind.
If according to you , ISLAM does not say to respect other religions , then how can you call ISLAM a Peace full religion.
Even history says when Mohammed (PBUH) came first time to mecca, he broke all the idols in Kaba. but who cares about the history.
Give Respect and Take respect , does not apply only to Kafirs, it applies to You also.
Posted:
Wed 14 May, 2008 12:02 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
The history tells us that it had many idols in it, as well the history tells us the kafirs used to do the tawaf naked, sort of Mardi Gras in the vicinity of Al Masjid Al Haram
QuranandScience wrote:
So you believe in History more than the Quran,
Don't try to twist things with me, pal
I respect the history but only if it does not violate the Quran
QuranandScience wrote:
because common sense say that we should respect other religions.
that is your common sense, however my common sense tells me that i only respect other religions if they respect mine on my Muslim land
QuranandScience wrote:
only people like you and Taliban says not to respect other religion.
you are a liar, what I said that those who want to erect idols in public on a Muslim land, must be showing no respect to the owners and the laws of the Muslim land, if they are not happy then they can take their idols and piss off, now I don't give a fuk who else agrees with me, being Taliban, or Micky Mouse, makes no difference
AhmedBahgat wrote:
prove that Ibrahim didn't physically break the statues of the idols worshippers, for Mohamed, there is nothing in the Quran that he broke any idols therefore I'm not going to get into conjectures
QuranandScience wrote:
[b]See the word IDOLS , Can be physical(1,2,3,4)or Non-Physical(5,6) according to its meanings . Its upto you if you want to show Islam disrespect other religions or Islam gives respect to other religions. depending on your choice you take the meaning.
great then the idols that Ibrahim destroyed fall under the physical defintion 1,2,3 & 4
QuranandScience wrote:
Why Abrahim will break physical Idols,
because he wants to save their worshippers from a garanteed doom
QuranandScience wrote:
which can be made again.
sure and if they make it on Muslim land and the laws of the land prevents it then it will be destroyed again
QuranandScience wrote:
he need to remove other Gods from the Minds of people, that is the False Conception(Idols) which will not allow to make physical one.
BS and a clear barbie argument, no one can change or have power to change what is in others mind, only the self can do it, and Ibrahim was helping them by destroying their crap which they made gods so they might think again and change their poluted minds
QuranandScience wrote:
He broke all the False conception from the people minds but not the big One that is Allah.
total crap must be dismissed
dismissed
QuranandScience wrote:
Then when people asked Him Who has broken there Gods. Then Abrahim Answered and he told the truth that It was broken by the Big one (That is Allah). Only Allah can help Abrahim to remove false conception from peoples mind.
dismissed again
QuranandScience wrote:
If according to you , ISLAM does not say to respect other religions , then how can you call ISLAM a Peace full religion.
I never called Islam, a peaceful religion, do you think I'm one of the freak minders or somethin?
QuranandScience wrote:
Even history says when Mohammed (PBUH) came first time to mecca, he broke all the idols in Kaba. but who cares about the history.
well, if you read the Quran then you should know that Ibrahim was ordered to purify Allah house for the people to come and worship Him, so Mohammed did what Ibrahim was told to do because Mohammed was following Millat Ibrahim
QuranandScience wrote:
Give Respect and Take respect , does not apply only to Kafirs, it applies to You also.
again, on the Muslim land, if the kafirs erect idols as gods in public then they must be showing no respect to the owners and the laws of the Muslim land, therefore they should not be respected
Note: further crap by you regarding this subject will be dismissed in advance
cheers
Posted:
Wed 14 May, 2008 12:51 pm
Kafir-Harbi Pawn
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Post subject:
Hello QnS,
You did a great job of exposing the Moslem in Ahmed Bahgat.
Just one question to you, Why are you living in the Kafir land ? ...... just imagine yourself in islamic lands and the pleasure and glee you will derive when you smash the idols of other religions, I thought you were different from other moslems, oh boy was I wrong or what, you are just one more moslem.......
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