Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Ahmed is using his absolute right to reply to any of the life dimissals of FFI as he desires:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Let me educate Ugly by giving him a Quran lesson:
Let's have a look at the following verse:
charleslemartel wrote:
How does that even attempt to answer the question IAT raised? You are certainly not that dumb, AB.
You have to answer two questions actually:
I do not have to, Mental, however I chose to to do it this time and take the chance to make the 14th slam dunk:
charleslemartel wrote:
1. Why does Allah put a seal on the heart of a kafir at all?
The answer is in the verse before it you blind ignorant, let's have a look:
6: Indeed, those who have disbelieved, it is the same to them whether you warn them or you do not warn them, they do not believe.
7: Allah has set upon their hearts, and upon their hearing and upon their visions a veil, and for them, there is a great torture. [Al Quran ; 2:6-7]
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ سَوَاءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ أَأَنذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنذِرْهُمْ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ (6)
خَتَمَ اللّهُ عَلَى قُلُوبِهمْ وَعَلَى سَمْعِهِمْ وَعَلَى أَبْصَارِهِمْ غِشَاوَةٌ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عظِيمٌ (7)
-> See: إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ سَوَاءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ أَأَنذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنذِرْهُمْ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ, i.e. Indeed, those who have disbelieved, it is the same to them whether you warn them or you do not warn them, they do not believe. , and because, those kafirs BOLDLY reject the mesaage, they earned the following: Allah has set upon their hearts, and upon their hearing and upon their visions a veil, and for them, there is a great torture.
charleslemartel wrote:
2. Why should a sealed heart be punished by Allah for not returning to the true path? Isn't Allah responsible for that kafir not returning to the true path because of that seal he put?
Haha, the coward kafirs always like to blame something else, blame yourself, punk: Indeed, those who have disbelieved, it is the same to them whether you warn them or you do not warn them, they do not believe.
# 14
Posted:
Sun 12 Oct, 2008 10:09 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 39 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
Quote:
This whole seal on the heart thing has to make any thinking mind wonder why God would block someone from returning to the true path. One might say that God already knows that one will never return to the true path and therefore applies the seal, but if that's the case, then why even bother to apply the seal? Why take even the smallest extra step if it is completely unnecessary? See how goofy this entire concept is?
"Kafaro" in 2:6 does not mean infidels. It means evildoers. See how goofy you look?
So those evildoers will not leave their evil doings even if prophet Muhammed. Thus God puts a seal on their heart from believing because Islam rejects persistent criminals and evildoers.
Quote:
I think Muhammad made it up to explain to the converted pagans why they were converting, but the Christian and Jews, who's religion Muhammad supposedly came to complete, were not converting.
Entire communities of Jews and Christians converted to Islam at the time. Some of them even became scholars of Islam. Anyway Jews and Christians were insignificant in Arabia, unlike the Hanifs, Sabeans and Pagans, and so the Pagans would not have given a damn if the Jews and Christians had converted or not.
Quote:
So Muhammad had to make up the seal on the heart excuse and it was a really stupid goof on his part. He just didn't think this one through very well,
This is more hilarious than the "Muhammed forgot..." or "Muhammed did not know that such and such...". They want us to believe that Muhammed "made mistakes..." when even his contemporary adversaries did not challenge him at them. Their intellectual terrorism won't work with us. Only a fool would believe such crap.
Or an anti-Islam infidel!
Quote:
He just didn't think this one through very well, just like BagHat never thinks things through very well, just like the majority of Muslims don't think things through very well.
Muslims were among the greatest contributors to the human civilization when you were a big zero! Nonexistent.
Quote:
Seems like logic and reasoning to Muslims is like garlic is to a vampire.
It seems hate, bigotry, ignorance and arrogance to you are like a piece of shit to a fly
Posted:
Fri 17 Oct, 2008 10:35 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Thank you brother Windsor for you input, I will copy your reply to their web site inshaallah:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Why Zul-Qarnain of the Quran is not Alexander the great
# 12
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Hello Ahmed.
Hello
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
I agree with you in that Zul-Qarnain is not the historical Alexander the Great.
So, why you are wasting my time and yours if you agree that Zul Qarnain is not Alexander the queer?
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
But who was Zul-Qarnain?
Well, he can be one of billions of people, however the hearsay hadith books tell us that he was a prophet of God and the Quran confirmed that.
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
How about the mythical Alexander the Great?
Who gives a fuk about such queer?, sounds like you do
well, it makes no difference now after you conceded that Zul Qarnain can not be the great queer Alexander
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
We who do not believe in the Qur'an look for an explanation.
Well, read this:
1) the Quran tells us that Zul Qarnain is a man of God
2) all the history records confirmed that Alexander was a queer who enjoyed sleeping with men and wamen
3) the Quran condemns the queers
from 1, 2 & 3, Zul Qarnain can not be Alexander the queer
For both of them wearing two horns hat, can not be conclusive that they are the same
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
There has to be a source for the Zul-Qarnain of the Quran story.
That's right, Allah who authored the Quran is the source
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
The story of Dhul-Qarnayn in the Qur'an (Sura The Cave 18:83-98 ) matches the Gog and Magog episode in the Alexander Romance written by an unknown author called Pseudo-Callisthenes.
So what?
Do you agree that alexander was a queer?
if you do then dismiss yourself and stop wasting my time and yours
My comment, is not about who is Zul Qarnain, my comment is to prove that Zul Qarnain can not be the queer alexander, and you conceded that
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
There has been some controversy among Islamic scholars.
Haha, fuk the Muslim scholars, 90% of them are confused fuks
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Alexander was identified in Persian and Arabic-language sources as "Dh�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�»-'l Qarnayn",
and any one in all humanity who wears a two horns hat may be called the same
what is your problem exactly?
I know
desperation is your problem and consquently I have to dismiss your crap:
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Arabic for the "Two Horned One", likely a reference to the ram horns Alexander wears on coins minted during his rule to indicate his descent from the Egyptian god Amun.
The source of the Qur'anic story of Dhu-Qarnain seems to be from a Syriac version of the legend of Alexander, originaly in Greek. There is also an Armenian version. The Muslim Arabs have their version in the Qur'an.
Th writer of the Qur'an didn't know that he was retelling a ficticious story. Stories were told and audiences listened for entertainment.
The original story can be found in the book "A Christian Legend Concerning Alexander", In The History of Alexander the Great Being the Syriac Version of the Pseudo-Callisthenes. Translated by E.A. W. Budge, 1889, pages 145-148
Dismissed
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
I would like very much to see you Slam Dunk this one. Please answer this one question. Why did the writer of the Qur'an retell a ficticious story?
Holy crap, here is again the objective of my comment:
It is to prove that Zul Qarnain can not be the queer Alexander, and for Alexander to be queer, is enough to conclude the the two can never be the same, and that was slam dunk # 12 btw
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
I am waiting.
waiting for what exactly?
to be dismissed?
Posted:
Fri 17 Oct, 2008 3:34 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
Ahmed decided to take charles mental of the life dismissal list
charleslemartel wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Well, read this:
1) the Quran tells us that Zul Qarnain is a man of God
2) all the history records confirmed that Alexander was a queer who enjoyed sleeping with men an waman
3) the Quran condemns the queers
from 1, 2 & 3, Zu Qarnain can not be Alexander the queer
LOL. You talk as if Quran is a perfectly logical book like a mathematics book. Would you accept similar logic also for other verses of Quran? Or would you talk of context and multiple meanings and metaphors in order to obfuscate the contradictions in Quran?
Show me what you have, mental
one at a time
if you post more than one argument, like confused truthseeker, I will dismiss ya
show us how smart and logical you are
back to you, mental
Posted:
Fri 17 Oct, 2008 3:35 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
charleslemartel of FFI said:
Thanks for getting me off the life dismissal list; I am feeling quite happy :*).
Here I go, one at a time:
30:26 :
Yusuf Ali: To Him belongs every being that is in the heavens and on earth: all are devoutly obedient to Him.
2:34
Yusuf Ali: And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.
So, the logical conclusion:
1. Allah says all are obedient to him.
2. He also says Iblis refused him.
3. One of the statements above is false, hence Allah contradicts himself and makes false statements too.
----------------------------------
charleslemartel wrote:
Thanks for getting me off the life dismissal list; I am feeling quite happy :*).
Great, and I decided to be nice with you too, so I won't call you mental unless you said something that earned you the call, it's your happy day
charleslemartel wrote:
Here I go, one at a time:
Exactly, you know, that is a common tactic by the kafirs when debating Muslims, they think by posting masses of alleged contradictions that they will overwhelm the Muslims, and I know that such tactics may work with many Muslims, with me however, it means one thing only, an inevitable dismissal, the reason I replied to truthseeker2 masses of crap, I was simply bored.
charleslemartel wrote:
30:26 :
Yusuf Ali: To Him belongs every being that is in the heavens and on earth: all are devoutly obedient to Him.
Let me bring the Arabic text and qualify the above translation as I have not reached sura 30 in my translation yet:
This is what I believe is far more accurate translation than Y A one:
And to Him belongs what is in the heavens and the earth, all are to Him obedient. [The Quran ; 30:26]
وَلَهُ مَنْ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۖ كُلٌّ لَهُ قَانِتُونَ (26)
-> You are picking on the bolded words: all are to Him obedient., and for you? should cover the jinn and the humans, which I totally agree with you
Then you brought the following verse that you think is contradicting 30:26
charleslemartel wrote:
2:34
Yusuf Ali: And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.
Let me bring the Arabic text, as well, my translation (my web site is offline for relocation reasons, therefore this is my translation from the top of my head and may not be identical to what I have on my web site but will certainly be almost identical):
And when We have said to the angels: Prostrate before Adam, so they prostrated except Iblis, he refused and acted arrogantly, and he was from among the disbelievers. [The Quran ; 2:34]
وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لِآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ أَبَىٰ وَاسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ (34)
charleslemartel wrote:
So, the logical conclusion:
1. Allah says all are obedient to him.
2. He also says Iblis refused him.
3. One of the statements above is false, hence Allah contradicts himself and makes false statements too.
Well, it seems you suffer from the same common virus that infect the minds of all kafirs who chose to criticize the Quran, while I applauded you for presenting a Quran only argument, as you know that I do not waste my time with any other Jerry Springer crap, your argument is still nothing but clear evidence of your infection of such virus, let me explain:
Kafirs can not pick a couple of verses from the Quran as a possible contradiction while TOTALLY IGNORING what the Quran also said regarding many related matters, in fact the Quran had given us the answer in the same verse 2:34, Iblis refused BECAUSE he was one from among the disbelievers while acting arrogantly at the same time, i.e. Iblis had a choice to act arrogant and disbelieve, this must raise another logical and related question, why Iblis had a choice?, and the most important question is this: Does it mean that if I have full power over another person, then give such person a bit of choice while informing him that if he screws, I will burn him, that such person is not obedient to me?, I say absolutely not, because ultimately he will be obedient to me when I force him to burn in the fire that I promised him with, he will be forced in such obedience with no way out but myself if I change my mind. From this logical and valid way of thinking, everything is obedient to Allah, in fact if you look at the words again: كُلٌّ لَهُ قَانِتُونَ , Kul Lahu Qanitoon, i.e. with the exact word order,: All are to Him obedient, the word Lahu, which means to Him perfectly qualify what I said in the previous paragraph, imagine the words been said without to Him, i.e. All are obedient, can you sense the difference?, clearly in the first one with the words to Him imply both current and future event, while the second without the words to Him implies only present.
Let me now go back to my first note (your infection and what you have missed that is related to such matter one way or another), I am not going to overwhelm you with many verses, I will just tell you what the Quran said which destroys your argument and will constitute slam dunk # 15
1) Allah flagged two creatures that they will have a bit of choice while at the end if the screw, they will be burnt in the fire
2) The two creatures are the Jinn and the Humans
3) Iblis was one of the Jinn
4) When Iblis used his bit of free choice that was given to him, to disbelieve and disobey, he was cursed and the punishment was due but Allah chose to delay it so He test the humans using Iblis, at the end though he must and whoever follows him from among the jinn and the humans earn under the laws of Allah, obedience to be burnt in the fire without any possible way out except if Allah desires
5) there is no escape from the laws of Allah
It is like our laws exactly, a murderer has a choice to kill but he will never have a choice to dodge the electric chair if he gets caught, in this life some may escape such law, but with Allah, there is no escape from His laws, i.e. ultimately we are and everything for that matter is obedient to Him at the end.
Had the Quran not stated the above points 1 to 5, then you may have had a point, but because the Quran said so (all the above points) as well, my very strong argument of the word Lahu, to Him that was included in 30:26 all are to Him obedient, I have no option but conclude my refute with this:
No animation as it seems that there are some technical issues linking back to my offline site:
# 15
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Mon 13 Jun, 2016 5:05 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted:
Fri 17 Oct, 2008 3:38 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Hello Again Ahmed
Hello
Ahmed Bahgat wrote:
So, why you are wasting my time and yours if you agree that Zul Qarnain is not Alexander the queer?
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
I am not wasting anyone's time.
Indeed you are, wasting both my time and yours, think about it again
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
If Zul Qarnain is such an import historical person then who was he?
I do not get it again, as I stated twice now, my reply is not to show who is Zul Qarnain, my reply was to prove that he could have never been alexander the quee, at the same time I do not care who was Zul Qarnain as long as I can coclude that he can not be a queer who takes it and give it in the anus
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
How do you prove that the Qur'anic Zul Qarnain narrative is truly historic?
Well, resorting to the same silly argument by the confised disbelievers, here is my logical reply again, i ONLY BELIEVE THAT THE QURAN IS TRUE, I can not however prove it, because the moment I do, it can not be belief any more and at such time the the beleief must cease and become a fact, logically speaking of course, therefore I can not prove anything in the Quran, nor that I need to explain to you my belief in it, neither that you need to explain your disbelieve in it to me.
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Alexander the queer was a historical person. I say that the Qur'anic Zul Qarnain narrative is fiction.
Fine, you can say and believe in what you say as you wish, makes no difference to me
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
After all only a fictional character would have found the sun setting in murky water. Look in Al Khaf 18:86. How can the creator expect anyone to believe such stupidity?
Can you see the signs of you defeat, you are confusing the subject which is if Zul Qarnain of the Quran (being fictiional of not) is the historical alexander the queer (being fictional or not), you are side tracked to who was Zul Qarnain? while atethe same time conceding that he was not alexander the queer (the subject in hand), now you are talking murkey water,
I have replied to such crap of murkey water tens of timees and really have no time to waste with the confused kafirs who will always be in denial
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Dismissing what you can't answer proves that you don't have an answer. Allah will be very unhappy with you and you will find out on the day of judgement. You will be accused of helping the kufar in ridiculing Allah's Book because you chose not to answer but to dismiss. By debating with the kufar you are setting up Allah's Book to be ridiculed.
Dismissed
Ahmed Bahgat wrote:
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
The story of Dhul-Qarnayn in the Qur'an (Sura The Cave 18:83-98 ) matches the Gog and Magog episode in the Alexander Romance written by an unknown author called Pseudo-Callisthenes.
So what?
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
The Greek version can be dated back to centuries before the supposed revelation of the Qur'an. It was fiction. It was entertainment. The writer of the Alexander Romance knew it was fiction.
Fine, that is one of the possibilties, however you will be dumb to ignore other possibilities, one of such other possibilities that the story mentioned in the Quran is true
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
The writer of the Qur'an believed it.
and another possibility that the Quran is from Allah (the One and Only God) and the story is 100% true, you will be really dumb if you discount such possibility
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Your Qur'an is stupid.
How come a book that you call boldy stupid , has such masses of followers over 1400?, certainly it can not be a stupid book, have you ever considered that you may be the one who is stupid?, you know, another possibility in the odds, you will be stupid to discount that you may be stupid, work this out, pal
Posted:
Fri 17 Oct, 2008 3:39 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Great, and I decided to be nice with you too, so I won�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t call you mental unless you said something that earned you the call, it�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s your happy day
charleslemartel wrote:
Thank you. And I will reciprocate the good will by not calling you Ahmak unless you dismissed my argument when not able to counter it.
Honestly, I careless if you call me Ahmaq or not, I am not a girlie like you who cries all the times
AhmedBahgat wrote:
-> You are picking on the bolded words: all are to Him obedient., and for you, �?????�????�???�??�?�¢??ALL�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?? should cover the jinn and the humans, which I totally agree with you
charleslemartel wrote:
"All" of course means "All"; thanks for agreeing with me here.
In this verse, yes it covers the Jinn and the Humans, that is what i said, I never said that Kul means All, i.e. everything, Kul in Arabiic does not necessarily mean everything all the times.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
let me explain:
Kafirs can not pick a couple of verses from the Quran as a possible contradiction while TOTALLY IGNORING what the Quran also said regarding many related matters, in fact the Quran had given us the answer in the same verse 2:34, Iblis refused BECAUSE he was one from among the disbelievers while acting arrogantly at the same time,
charleslemartel wrote:
See, I have presented my argument in a logical manner. "All" includes Iblis as well as jinns, humans, angels, whatever or whoever.
And I agreed on that, why you are crying?
charleslemartel wrote:
I am not bothered about "Why" of the Iblis's disobedience.
Did you not read my comment properly or what?
I said, the Quran clearly told us that the Jinn along with the Humans have been given a bit of choice to disobey
Therefore whatever Iblis did which looks disobedience, is covered under such bit of free choice given, are you dumb or what?
Again, I said the following, had the Quran not said so about the Jinn and the Humans then you would have had a point, however because the Quran said so, you have been slammed
charleslemartel wrote:
The fact of the matter is that Iblis is included in the word "All" who are supposed to be obedient to Allah,
You are saying so because you consider that the Quran saying All is a fact of a matter, which I accepted early, on the other hand you are ignoring the other fact of the matter that the Quran also said that the Jinn to whom Iblis belongs were given a bit of choice to disobey, again, are you dumb?
charleslemartel wrote:
and he disobeyed. Period.
And the Quran said that the Jinn to whom Iblis belongs were given a bit of choice to disobey, period.
You are really dumb, aren't you?
charleslemartel wrote:
Whys and Hows and Wheres and Whats and Whos only obfuscate the issue.
What non sense is that?
Again and again and bloody again, you are using the Quran against itself while ignoring the fact of the matter that Quran also said that the Jinn to whome Iblis belongs are given a bit of choice to disobey while at the end, they will be punished really bad
Wake up and talk sense or I will dismiss your crap
AhmedBahgat wrote:
i.e. Iblis had a choice to act arrogant and disbelieve, this must raise another logical and related question, why Iblis had a choice?,
charleslemartel wrote:
Irrelevant question; is it called red herring?
What red herring you confused?, this is yet another sign to the defeat of the kafirs when they are slam dunked, they resort to their fantasy world of fallacies
Well, if you are smart enough then you should realize that you are basing your argument on what the Quran said against what the Quran said while ignoring what I presneted which is also what the Quran said, and what I presented is 100% related to your confusion, that you are not aware that the Quran said that the Jinn to whom Iblis belongs are given a bit of choice to disobey, THAT IS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO SLAM DUNK YOUR CRAP, LOGICALLY SPEAKING AND SEND YOU BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD THINKING OF THE NEXT LOGICAL CONTRADICTION IN THE QURAN
Be a man and admit your defeat regarding the stupid argument you presneted
AhmedBahgat wrote:
and the most important question is this: Does it mean that if I have full power over another person, then give such person a bit of choice while informing him that if he screws, I will burn him, that such person is not obedient to me?, I say absolutely not, because ultimately he will be obedient to me when I force him to burn in the fire that I promised him with, he will be forced in such obedience with no way out but myself if I change my mind. From this logical and valid way of thinking, everything is obedient to Allah,
charleslemartel wrote:
Absolutely wrong. It will only prove your power over the person and not his obedience.
You are certainly confused, here is why:
If one of my commands is to give person A a bit of choice to disobey me, then:
If person A obeyed such command by using his bit of free choice to disobey me, then person A is obedient to me all the way, hahaha, that must be slam dunk # 16:
# 16
charleslemartel wrote:
History is replete with persons who have revolted against the powers that be and had to pay the price for their disobedience or revolt in form of torture, death or incarceration.
And if one of my command was to give person A a bit of free choice to disobey me and person A did just that, then perosn A is obedient to me all the way, I do not think that you are smart enough to understand such compelling logic
charleslemartel wrote:
What you are claiming here, I am sorry to say, is totally illogical.
No surprises in here, that is what I always get from the stubborn and confused kafirs after I expose them, can you see that I am still exposing you
Thanks for being part of my slam dunk show
AhmedBahgat wrote:
in fact if you look at the words again: كُلٌّ لَهُ قَانِتُونَ , Kul Lahu Qanitoon, i.e. with the exact word order,: All are to Him obedient, the word Lahu, which means to Him perfectly qualify what I said in the previous paragraph, imagine the words been said without to Him, i.e. All are obedient, can you sense the difference?, clearly in the first one with the words to Him imply both current and future event, while the second without the words to Him implies only present.
charleslemartel wrote:
Irrelevant again.
*Translation:*
I am defeated again
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Let me now go back to my first note (your infection and what you have missed that is related to such matter one way or another), I am not going to overwhelm with verse, I will just tell you what the Quran said which destroys your argument and will constitute slam dunk # 15
charleslemartel wrote:
Let us see.
As well, you need to see slam dunk # 16 above
AhmedBahgat wrote:
1) Allah flagged two creatures that they will have a bit of choice while at the end if the screw, they will be burnt in the fire
2) The two creatures are the Jinn and the Humans
3) Iblis was one of the Jinn
4) When Iblis used his bit of free choice that was given to him, to disbelieve and disobey, he was cursed and the punishment was due but Allah chose to delay it so He test the humans using Iblis, at the end though he must and whoever follows him from among the jinn and the humans earn under the laws of Allah, obedience to be burnt in the fire without any possible way out except if Allah desires
5) there is no escape from the laws of Allah
charleslemartel wrote:
Only goes to prove the power of Allah over humans and jinns. An obedient creature does not refuse to obey; the moment he does so, he is no longer obedient irrespective of the punishment inflicted upon him later on.
Let's repeat slam dunk # 16 then:
You are certainly confused, here is why:
If one of my commands is to give person A a bit of choice to disobey me, then:
If person A obeyed such command by using his bit of free choice to disobey me, then person A is obedient to me all the way, hahaha, that must be slam dunk # 16
# 16
Thanks again for being part of my show
AhmedBahgat wrote:
It is like our laws exactly, a murderer has a choice to kill but he will never have a choice to dodge the electric chair if he gets caught, in this life some may escape such law, but with Allah, there is no escape from His laws, i.e. ultimately we are and everything for that matter is obedient to Him at the end.
charleslemartel wrote:
Only shows his power, nothing else. Still does not prove that Iblis was obedient to him.
Slam dunk # 16 above
Quote:
Had the Quran not stated the above points 1 to 5, then you may have had a point, but because the Quran said so (all the above points) as well, my very strong argument of the word Lahu, to Him that was included in 30:26 all are to Him obedient,
charleslemartel wrote:
Pat your back as much as you can, but I have proven that the claim of Allah that all are obedient to him has been refuted by Allah himself when he narrated the story of disobedience of Iblis.
Slam dunk # 16 above
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I have no option but conclude my refute with this:
No animation as it seems that there are some technical issues linking back to my offline site:
# 15
charleslemartel wrote:
LOL. I am sorry, Ahmed. This slam dunk of yours has boomeranged on you. You have been slam dunked soundly and could not do anything to prevent it.
Well, you do not just need to deal with slam dunk # 15, but slam dunk # 16 as well, you have been double slammed
Next
Posted:
Fri 17 Oct, 2008 10:14 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Your Qur'an is stupid.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
How come a book that you call boldy stupid , has such masses of followers over 1400?, certainly it can not be a stupid book, have you ever considered that you may be the one who is stupid?, you know, another possibility in the odds, you will be stupid to discount that you may be stupid, work this out, pal
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
I call Al Qur'an stupid because it is stupid. Al Qur'an is stupid compared to modern day science. According to the Qur'an the earth is flat and the sun sets in murky water.
Stop being a stubborn ignorant kafir, as I explained to you and to others many times, the Quran never said that the earth is flat, in fact what the Quran implies all the way is that the earth is round
For your murkey water claim, again you dumb, the Quran was telling to us a story as seen from Zul Qarnain persepctiv,
here is the sun rising from the land from the humans perspective you dumb:
Now try to reverse the animation as if it is sunset while there is a lake of murkey water at the horizon
And that must be slam dunk # 17
# 17
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
The Qur'an is a product of backward, tribal, and insane minds. It contains the worst ethics.
Dismissed
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
The majority of Muslims don't even know Qur'an. They are blind followers.
I agree for once with you, ignorant
Posted:
Tue 21 Oct, 2008 4:38 pm
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 39 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
Quote:
The story of Dhul-Qarnayn in the Qur'an (Sura The Cave 18:83-98 ) matches the Gog and Magog episode in the Alexander Romance written by an unknown author called Pseudo-Callisthenes.
So what? Do you know that nations before Islam received prophets from God?
Quote:
There has been some controversy among Islamic scholars.
There is no priesthood in Islam.
Quote:
Alexander was identified in Persian and Arabic-language sources as "Dh�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�»-'l Qarnayn",
That's wrong. He was always identified as Alexander the Macedonian. And even if some identified him as "Thul Qarnayn" it stemmed from Muslims' false belief that the Quranic "Thul Qarnayn" refereed to him.
Quote:
Arabic for the "Two Horned One", likely a reference to the ram horns Alexander wears on coins minted during his rule to indicate his descent from the Egyptian god Amun.
"Thul Qarnayn" does not mean the "Two Horned One". It means the "Ruler Of Two Peoples".
Quote:
I would like very much to see you Slam Dunk this one. Please answer this one question. Why did the writer of the Qur'an retell a ficticious story?
The Quran did not retell anything, never mind a fictitious story. Thul Qarnayn was a historical figure and I will get back to that shortly.
Quote:
If Zul Qarnain is such an import historical person then who was he?
He was not an important historical person. Who said that?
Anyway, Thul Qarnayn is a person that predated prophet Adam, peace be upon him.
Quote:
How do you prove that the Qur'anic Zul Qarnain narrative is truly historic?
The mighty Thul Qarnayn was known in Arabian cultue long before Islam. People used to tell his amazing adventures to their children and so on.
Quote:
Alexander the queer was a historical person. I say that the Qur'anic Zul Qarnain narrative is fiction.
It is certainly not fiction. And prophet Muhammed was not as ignorant as you falsely want to make him out to be. He certainly could distinguish between what was fiction and nonfiction in his time. Sometimes I really laugh at the contradictions and inconsistencies of these clueless guys. sometimes they say that prophet Muhammed knew all about Greek and Roman science, as if he Aristotle! And sometimes they try to make him a clueless guy who did not even know the realities of his surroundings! And among all this the Muslim can only sit and laugh at their unjustified arrogance and ignorance.
As I said, Thul Qarnayn is a person that predated prophet Adam, peace be upon him.
Quote:
After all only a fictional character would have found the sun setting in murky water. Look in Al Khaf 18:86. How can the creator expect anyone to believe such stupidity?
The Quran does not say that Thul Qarnayn found the sun setting in murky water. It says that when Thul Qarnayn was in murky water at sunset, he saw the sun disappearing or setting. That's the correct rendering of the verse.
Quote:
Dismissing what you can't answer proves that you don't have an answer. Allah will be very unhappy with you and you will find out on the day of judgement. You will be accused of helping the kufar in ridiculing Allah's Book because you chose not to answer but to dismiss. By debating with the kufar you are setting up Allah's Book to be ridiculed.
You cannot "ridicule" the Holy Quran. None can.
You can certainly live under the false illusion of being "great" and "big" when you think you are "ridiculing" the Quran, but it will only show your intellectual bankruptcy. Let's say an Arsenal fan takes a Tottenham t-shirt and pisses on it, and then says that he ridiculed Tottenham FC. Reasonable people would think that that person is great or good, they would laugh at him and his ignorance, and this perfectly matches you and your likes.
Quote:
The Greek version can be dated back to centuries before the supposed revelation of the Qur'an. It was fiction. It was entertainment. The writer of the Alexander Romance knew it was fiction.
Thul Qarnayn predated the Greek version by thousands of years. So your statement here falls flat on its face.
And even if that was not the case, you can never prove that the author of the Quran copied from Greece. This is even sillier than the usual "The Quran copied the Bible..." crap we hear from Christians.
Quote:
The writer of the Qur'an believed it.
As I explained above, the writer of the Quran believed in the original historical Thul Qarnayn, not in a stupid piece of literature written by a Greek author.
Quote:
Your Qur'an is stupid.
This is rich coming from a Zoroastrian retard . Has this arrogant retard ever opened one page of his stupid scripture?
Quote:
I call Al Qur'an stupid because it is stupid. Al Qur'an is stupid compared to modern day science. According to the Qur'an the earth is flat and the sun sets in murky water.
The Holy Quran never said the earth is flat. There are clear verses in the Holy Quran saying that the earth is a sphere.
And it never says that the sun sets in murky water. I explained that above and here it is again;
"The Quran does not say that Thul Qarnayn found the sun setting in murky water. It says that when Thul Qarnayn was in murky water at sunset, he saw the sun disappearing or setting. That's the correct rendering of the verse."
Quote:
The Qur'an is a product of backward, tribal, and insane minds. It contains the worst ethics.
Prove it. The Quran is only scripture that conforms with modern secularism and democracy.
Quote:
The majority of Muslims don't even know Qur'an. They are blind followers.
And so are he majority of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Zoroastrians, you included, etc... Most of them are blind followers who have never opened a page of their scripture. In my interaction with these adherents, I have found that Muslims in general have superior knowledge of their scriptures than those adherents have of their own.
Posted:
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 4:05 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 39 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
Quote:
Thank you brother Windsor for you input, I will copy your reply to their web site inshaallah:
You are welcome brother, but please do not post it on their forum, as I do not interact with those arrogant hateful ignorants.
Posted:
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 4:09 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 39 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
That charleslemartel is even more stupid than Zorasta_Russ.
Qanitoon does not mean obedient. It means here that we are programmed to follow the natural laws that God has set forth for us.
There are 2 kinds of Qanitoon;
1. Those obedient to God, such as Maryam;
"And [We have propounded yet another parable of God-consciousness in the story of] Mary, the daughter of Imran, [24] who guarded her chastity, whereupon We breathed of Our spirit into that [which was in her womb], [25] and who accepted the truth of her Sustainer�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s words - and [thus,] of His revelations [26] - and was one of the truly devout." [66:12]
"Wamaryama ibnata AAimrana allatee ahsanat farjaha fanafakhna feehi min roohina wasaddaqat bikalimati rabbiha wakutubihi wakanat mina alqaniteena"
See the verse here says "wakanat mina alqaniteena", which means, she became one of the devout. It's very much like Satan who was a believer and then became a disbeliever when he refused to greet Adam. Thus, not everyone obeys the commandments of God. It's actually stupid to think so since are billions of disbelievers all over the earth!
2. Those who innately follow the laws of nature set by God, and this of course includes all of us. An example of this in the Holy Quran is the verse 30:26.
Posted:
Wed 22 Oct, 2008 4:29 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Hello Ahmed
I want you to slam dunk this one. You may have missed it earlier.
Hatta itha balagha maghriba alshshamsi wajadaha taghrubu fee AAaynin hami-atin
Hatta = Until
itha = when
balagha = he reached
maghriba = setting place, also west
alshshamsi = of the sun
wajadaha = he found it
taghrubu = setting
fee = in
AAaynin = spring or well
hami-atin = containing hama, which is pitch black and warm clay
018.086
Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it set in a pitch black/hot well /spring
Where is the setting place of the sun?
According to the Qur'an it is a pitch black and warm well or spring. Zul Qarnain didn't only see te setting place of the sun but he FOUND the sun setting or well of pitch black and waem mud. This would hardly be the sun setting behind the horizon of the sea.
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
I am showing everyone that I'm not the only one to translate the following verse 18:86
٨٦... حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ
as
Until when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a pitch black/hot well/spring.
Salam all
Sorry for the delay, I have about 500 kg of hardware that I need to pack and send to the UK, tough job as you may imagine, anyway, this slam dunk is going to be swift as I have no time to mock around for the next 2 days at least
Zorasta confusion and ignorance is obvious, it seems he does not know the meaning of two words in 18:86, one is hard to know (yet easy to figure out) and the other should be known by a child, here is the two words that Zorasta knows nothing about them:
1) بَلَغَ , Balagh
2) مَغْرِبَ , Maghrib
Let me start with the tough word : Balagh
The word has two formats:
A) بَلَغَ , Balagh
B) بَلِّغْ , Ballagh
Can you spot the difference?
A) Well, the first word has a Fatha (aaaa) over the second letter (Lam), i.e. Balagh, and it may mean two things:
i) reach a place
2) reach a time frame
B) The second word has a Shadda (stress to double a letter) over the second letter (Lam), i.e. Ballagh, can you see the double L, and it should mean one thing only: to deliver something, this is not the subject of this debate but I will still show a Quran example of such word: Ballagh
O messenger! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; indeed Allah does not guide the unbelieving people. [Al Quran ; 5:67]
يَا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ وَإِن لَّمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُ وَاللّهُ يَعْصِمُكَ مِنَ النَّاسِ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الْكَافِرِينَ (67)
-> See: بَلِّغْ مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ, Ballagh Ma Onzil Ilaik, i.e. Deliver what has been sent down to you
If the marks are not written then the only way to know which one of the two is by examining what comes after it, in the verse above 5:67, what came after Ballagh is what has been sent down to you, and sure what has been sent down to you does not mean a place nor it means a time frame, therefore it has to be Ballagh with a Shadda on the second letter to mean To deliver
Let me now move to the first word (the one in question) that has a Fatha (aaaa) over the second letter (Lam), i.e. Balagh, which may mean two things as I said earlier:
i) reach a place
2) reach a time frame
Again, how we know which meaning of the two, again by checking the word(s) that come after it.
1) if the word(s) that come after Balagh is a place, then Balagh must mean, reach such place, let me show you an example from Zul Qarnain story:
Until when he reached between the two mountains, he found near them a people who could hardly understand a word. [Al Quran ; 18:93]
حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ بَيْنَ السَّدَّيْنِ وَجَدَ مِنْ دُونِهِمَا قَوْمًا لَا يَكَادُونَ يَفْقَهُونَ قَوْلًا (93)
-> See : بَلَغَ بَيْنَ السَّدَّيْنِ , Balagh Bain Alsadayn, i.e. he reached between the two mountains, clearly the words: بَيْنَ السَّدَّيْنِ , Bain Alsadayn which came after Balagh, is a place, therefore the word Balagh must mean reaching such place
2) if the word(s) that come after Balagh is a time frame, then Balagh must mean, reach such time frame, let me show you an example from the Quran then we will look at the verse in question:
And when he had reached his maturity, We gave him wisdom and knowledge: and thus do We reward the doers of good. [Al Quran ; 12:22]
وَلَمَّا بَلَغَ أَشُدَّهُ آتَيْنَاهُ حُكْمًا وَعِلْمًا ۚ وَكَذَٰلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ (22)
-> See : بَلَغَ أَشُدَّه , Balagh Ashudahu, i.e. he reached his maturity, clearly the words: أَشُدَّه , Ashudahu which came after Balagh, is a time frame, therefore the word Balagh must mean reaching such time frame which is his maturity, the verse above is talking about prophet Yusuf
So far, everything should be clear as light, now before I move to the verse in question, I have to remind you all that the Muslims have 5 time frames of Prayer a day:
1) Fajir : Dawn
2) Zuhr : Noon
3) Asr : After noon
4) Maghrib : Sunset
5) Ishaa : Night
I am sure all the goons on FFI know that, let me now bring the verse in question and see for ourselves if the word Balagh mean reaching a place or reaching a time frame:
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness. [Al Quran ; 18:86]
حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ وَوَجَدَ عِنْدَهَا قَوْمًا ۗ قُلْنَا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِمَّا أَنْ تُعَذِّبَ وَإِمَّا أَنْ تَتَّخِذَ فِيهِمْ حُسْنًا (86)
-> How clear is that, you ignorant goons, see: بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْس, Balagh Maghrib Alshams, i.e. he reached the setting of the sun, i. bloody e., reaching a time frame not a place, however at that time and depending on the place he was in, it just happened that in the horizon there is was a lake of murky water and the sun was setting behind it
BTW, the translation above is by Y A, who was not as dumb as the others who added the word place to the verse while it only mean reaching a time frame, and in our verse, it is the time frame of the sunset of the sun Maghrib Alshams
I have to say that this must constitute another mother of all slams:
# 18
Thumbnail, click to enlarge.
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Mon 02 Apr, 2018 6:52 am; edited 4 times in total
Posted:
Fri 24 Oct, 2008 6:25 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
piss the life dismissal of FFI in reply to my comment above
damn right you are, clown. Read the WHOLE sentence!
Quote:
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water:Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.
I do believe the LIAR Ahmed just motherslamdunked himself again.
He said he's got high I.Q. - Idiot quotient?
No wonder he's so quick to dismiss sum.
-----------------------------------------------
Ahmed chose to reply to the life dismissal piss:
Near the lake of murky water you confused
that must be slam dunk # 19
# 19
-----------------------------------------------
piss the life dismissal of FFI then added:
thanks for confirming that it is a place.
your lie about it being a mention of 'time' rather than 'place' had been shot to hell, dumb!
ONLY and ONLY when Ahmed thinks that he can refute your point, he WILL answer your post IRREGARDLESS of how many life dismissals he had given you.
Now those who had been dismissed by him knows that he cannot answer their posts so they remained: dismissed!!
-----------------------------------------------
So I replied:
One more reply to you, you confused then you are back into the life dismissal wing
piss the life dissmisal of FFI wrote:
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water:Near it he found a People
Ahmed said:
I.e. you low iq human, the people were living near a lake of murky water and behind that lake the sun was setting and it seemed to Zul Al Qarnain as if it sets in the murky water as I have shown in the animation you blind
Also punk, the sun does not set at all, it never bloody did, it appears to us as if it sets, your own science is flawed, hahahahah,
Conclusion:
piss the life dismissal of FFI is back into the life dimissal wing
Slam dunk # 20 is achieved:
# 20
Posted:
Sun 26 Oct, 2008 7:47 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Good morning all,
Hope you are enjoying my show so far, there still many actions to come, but today let me relax with dunking the 21st slam, the victim ths time is Ugly, I have ignored him too much and I think this is rude after he joined my show and while he is not on the LDL (Life Dismissal List), he is a good candidate to join the list though I have to say but because he got a lil of sense of humour, I am keeping him out the wing for a while.
I said earlier that Allah is telling us a story about Zul Qarnain and while the story is from Zul Qarnain perspective, i.e. from the perspective of what Zul Qarnain saw with his own eyes.
This is what Ugly had to say:
Islamis_Tashit wrote:
I wonder what happened to his lie, whoops, I mean "excuse" that the verse was telling us Qarnain's perspective when there's no reason for us to think that?
He means by his lie, my lie, i.e. I lied when I claimed as such, the problem for such confused ugly kafir is simply this, I can never lie about the Quran, if I ever said something about it and proved wrong, then it was not still a lie, rather an ignorance on my side and I will never have a problem to admit that, but be careful because I am like Michael Schumacher, my mistakes in the Quran are going to be very little, again, it is because I use the Quran to explain itself.
Let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s now look at the following verses from Zul Qarnain story:
They ask you concerning Zul-Qarnain. Say: I will recite to you something of his story. (The Quran ; 18:83)
وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَن ذِي الْقَرْنَيْنِ قُلْ سَأَتْلُو عَلَيْكُم مِّنْهُ ذِكْرًا (83)
-> Can you see the word "مِّنْهُ ", Minhu, i.e. from him, i.e. from his perspective.
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness. (The Quran ; 18:86)
حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ وَوَجَدَ عِنْدَهَا قَوْمًا ۗ قُلْنَا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِمَّا أَنْ تُعَذِّبَ وَإِمَّا أَنْ تَتَّخِذَ فِيهِمْ حُسْنًا (86)
-> See how clear it is from Zul Qarnain perspective again: حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ, i.e. Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water , the verse never said something like this:
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, it was setting in a spring of murky water
And finally, do not forget all, that the sun never sets nor rises, while all of us refer to it as such, because this is is how we see it from our perspective, yet the fact can not be denied, that what we say about sunrise and sunset is 100% flawed.
This means we have reached the conclusion of slam dunk # 21st # 21
Posted:
Sun 26 Oct, 2008 7:49 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Ahmed Bahgat wrote:
And finally, do not forget all, that the sun never sets nor rises, while all of us refer to it as such, because this is is how we see it from our perspective, yet the fact can not be denied, that what we say about sunrise and sunset is 100% flawed.
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
[I agree but the writer of Al Qur'an didn't know that the sun never sets nor rises. Also what Qur'an says about the sunrise and sunset is 100% flawed.
again, you stubborn ignorant, the Quran describes life as we see it, remember when I slammed you in the past regarding your Tom and Jerry allegation about the flat earth?, in such ex show, I stated that the Quran never said that the earth is flat while it also never directly said that the earth is round but it implies that it is round, i.e. it suits what the people were seeing iand understainding in the past and in the present and will be in the future btw
Again, the Quran must be mostely based on what we see, all the other things that are mentioned in it which we cannot see, must be categroised under the title of "BELIEF" which is an important and vital requirement for any religion.
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
You wrote that you interpret Al Qur'an using only Al Qur'an. No you don't. You redefine Al Qur'an according to what is scientifically accepted in our day.
I never did, I use logic that is based on valid possibilities using the exact Arabic words, I do refine the English translation because I found non that is accurate in year 2008
Did you notice that the tranlsation I brought to verse 18:83 is flawed?, it is indeed, and I overlooked it
The Arabic words قُلْ سَأَتْلُو عَلَيْكُم مِّنْهُ ذِكْرًا , Qul Saatlu Alaikum Minhu Zikra, should be translated as follow: Say: I will recite upon you from him a memorable
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
BTW you never explained how the sun sets in a muddy spring or well as it is written in Al Qur'an.
Are you blind or something?, I did many times, and sorry I have no time to waste on such subject any more, I have slammed it enough and I am busy as I need to slam a few Muslims that I crossed the line with yeasterday, I have outlined my work and need about 5 hours to do so i have to dismiss your stubborn whining , but I may look at what you posted regarding the allegation of the flat earth then constitute a few slams for it and add it to this show
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Mon 10 Nov, 2008 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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